| Q: |
Why did you choose this title
for your novel? |
| SS: |
Being "a citizen of the country,"
for me, means that you identify yourself with your country; you
are responsible for it, for both the good and the bad that it does.
It's like being married, being a parent, making something outside
yourself the center of your life. Reisden has Jouvet, his marriage,
his son; Andre has the theatre; Perdita has her marriage and her
baby, but also her commitment to her work and to Gilbert; and they
all have the sudden loyalties and responsibilities that a threat
of war provides.
As it usually does, responsibility leads to trouble,
conflict, desires that can't be reconciled.
For me the most frightening person in the book is
Lucien Petiot, who is a citizen in a very simple sense. French security
is compromised? Too bad, somebody has to die. Cyron playacts--literally--at
being a citizen and doesn't consider its consequences until he sees
how many deaths he's caused.
He never sees how many deaths he can still
cause.
My Dutch publisher says this novel is about insanity,
the form of complacent madness that doesn't really understand that
other people exist: "We had to destroy the village in order
to save it." The only sanity is seeing that other people are
real even if they define themselves as "the enemy"; their
life and death are as important as yours, and in the end both of
you may be citizens of the same country.
Expediency can be insane; justice, responsibility,
and compassion are the same.
|
| Q: |
In the beginning of this novel, Reisden
declares: "A family is a hostage to fate." Has he changed
his mind by the end of the novel? |
| SS: |
No. It's true. Choosing to become
a mother or a father is choosing to be vulnerable forever.
|
| Q:
|
As the guardian of Jouvet's archives, Reisden faces
a constant struggle to keep these sensitive records secure and confidential.
Was this a real problem for the psychiatric profession in the early
years? |
| SS: |
It remains a problem, and not a simple one. Not only
does a psychiatrist get pressure to release damaging information
on someone, but he or she often has to balance the confidentiality
of the doctor-patient relationship against the patient's chances
of hurting someone. It's a real issue if you suspect your patient's
a bomber. If you're "a citizen of the country" in any
simple sense, you might decide to serve your country rather than
your patient.
Reisden's country is Jouvet, in a sense, and his patients
are his countrymen, but he has to decide whether Andre is a danger
to Sabine.
|
| Q: |
Does Reisden represent a new kind of twentieth-century
man with his faith in psychiatry and the talking cure? |
| SS: |
He's not a trained Freudian psychiatrist yet. He's
doing all the things that a psychiatrist is not supposed to do.
He's more interested in protecting the weak and finding justice
than in whether Andre's id has overrun his ego. He's a guardian.
He believes in the talking cure almost as a confession--he's a
Catholic, though not a believer.
Rather an old-fashioned man, in fact. Don't tell him I said so.
|
| Q: |
Sabine believes she has the power to foretell death.
How would you respond to readers who wonder if she is simply delusional
and using this alleged power to justify her actions?
|
| SS: |
I know a woman who says that, back when she was young
during World War II, she used to see people on the street, mostly
young male friends that she hadn't seen for a while, and then, as
they came closer, she would realize that the person she was waving
to was a complete stranger. First it embarrassed her; then it frightened
her, because a day or two later she would hear that the young man
was dead. It happened about six times, she says, and stopped after
the war.
I was fascinated by the story, and I thought, "What if a woman
coulde see the deaths of people she was close to? Her nurse, her
father, her schoolmates? What would she do about it?"
Other people might try to prevent it, but not Sabine. She's eminently
practical or a complete sociopath, I don't know which. I suspect
she's a sociopath, but I rather like her. She's so uncomplicated,
like Lucien Petiot. Petiot likes her himself, but it doesn't save
her.
One of my first readers wanted her to survive and go to Hollywood.
|
| Q: |
Could you tell us more about the form of witchcraft
Sabine practices, which you mention in the afterword was lost in the
devastation of World War I? |
| SS: |
Almost everything we know about the popular culture
of this region comes from one book written in the 1880s. We know
some things, for instance that male witches were often priests or
shepherds and that they used St.-John's-wort, but it's very fragmentary.
There was much more information, of course, before the Arras library
burned in 1914.
What we know resembles Appalachian folk medicine and Pennsylvania
Dutch witchery, which are better documented, so I used details out
of those traditions.
A lot of what happens in the coven is just small-town power struggles.
The spats between Mademoiselle Francoise and the new coven leader
are like New England town meeting members getting into a spitting
match.
|
| Q: |
What else of the culture of Flanders was lost in World
War I? |
| SS: |
Everything, down to the shape of the ground. Before
I went to Flanders, I read a description Edith Wharton wrote of
a motor tour she took there in 1910. I was expecting woods, flocks
of sheep, lots of small villages. It's unrecognizable. Even now,
almost ninety years on from the war, the trees haven't recovered
and most of the villages are gone.
The fields around Vimy are marked with red signs: DANGER, UNEXPLODED
BOMBS. There's so much explosive still in the ground, it can't be
farmed, can't even be walked on. Around the trenches themselves,
around Vimy Ridge, the ground is choppy, up and down, like frozen
waves. There are huge craters from French and German sapping, big
enough to swallow a building, and little craters everywhere.
In some places the trenches are only yards apart, the distance
between a front-row audience and actors on stage. Men launched themselves
over the edge of the trenches at one another's lines and ran into
a rainstorm of bullets. Thousands of men simply disappeared, melted
away.
|
| Q: |
Did you always know what the secret of Montfort would
be? |
| SS: |
I discovered the essence of it only
when I got to Arras. I
went to the tourist office in the town hall, and right outside the
office was a sign, "This way to the Boves!" I had no idea
what a bove was so of course I had to see. In the tunnels was the
"church" where the witches met, just the way it is in
the book, and I had to use it.
The next day I went to Vimy Ridge. I'd been
looking for six months for a place to set the story, and there,
across the Corridor of Blood, was an enormous castle on a hill.
I walked across the valley to see it--mistake, it was much bigger
than I thought and about ten miles away, but there was Andre's perfect
castle, a ruin and a sacred spot.
Reading up on Mount St. Eloi, I discovered
the rumor that the tunnels extended all the way from the town of
Vimy to the castle, underneath the road I'd taken back to Arras.
I thought of those craters at Vimy and I knew that Cyron would try
to mine the road.
|
| Q: |
Is the Grand Necropolitan Theatre based on a real theater?
|
| SS: |
Yes, and Andre is based on its director. Count Andre
de Lorde was the son of a very poor French count who practiced as
a doctor. That Count Andre's father really did take him to deathbeds
and really did die when he was five. His mother didn't die, though;
she married a famous French actor, Jean Mounet-Sully, who was much
more sympathetic to him than Cyron is to his stepson.
Apart from their early lives, Andre de Lord and my Count Andre
turned out very different men. Andre de Lorde had a day job as a
government librarian!
Andre de Lorde cofounded the famous Grand Guignol horror theater,
which is the Grand Necro with a few little extras.
|
| Q: |
Why is Cyron, a famous actor, so blind to the fact that
his adopted son has followed in his footsteps? |
| SS: |
Cyron thinks he's a soldier who's pretended to be
an actor. He wanted Andre to be a soldier too.
But don't you think fathers and sons always have trouble seeing
themselves in one another? |
| Q: |
The parallels between Andre's and Reisden's lives are quite striking--both
the adopted sons of powerful men with very difficult childhoods--yet
they took very different careers. Why did you choose these particular
careers for them? |
| SS: |
Working with a character is a process
of discovery. When I first started working with Reisden, I thought
he was going to be a biochemist forever. He's choosing a different
path for himself. I had very little to do with it.
The two men both use theater to deal with problems
in their lives. In The Vanished
Child, Reisden acted a part that was too threatening to
play in real life. When Andre can't bear to think about what his
mother did, he turns it into a film. Reisden and he understand each
other utterly at that level--Reisden makes him watch the film.
|
| Q: |
Why did you choose to make Andre's film, Citizen
Mabet, an adaptation of Macbeth? |
| SS: |
Because I wouldn't have to explain the plot! It was
fun having Macbeth and Lady Macbeth guillotined, and having her
do her mad scene on the scaffold.
|
| Q: |
Is the film based on a particular early film? |
| SS: |
The closest film to Citizen Mabet is Ferdinand
Zecca's History of a Crime (1901), which has a
wonderful guillotining scene; you look at it and for a
moment you're sure the filmmakers killed someone.
|
| Q: |
You don't tell us whether Citizen Mabet will
be a success. Will it be? |
| SS: |
A star dying young, a tragic accident?
Brandon Lee in The Crow? James Dean? Aaliyah? It'll be
huge.
|
| Q: |
What will happen to Ruthie and Andre? |
| SS: |
It's difficult to tell what will
happen before writing it. But I think they'll get married and adopt
a child--a little girl. Ruthie's brother, Jules, will live with
them, and they'll be quietly happy together. Who sleeps with whom?
Does anyone sleep with anyone? I don't know. They're private people;
they keep their doors closed.
|
| Q: |
Andre wonders "How can anything last...especially
the happy family Reisden wants for his boy?" Will it last? |
| SS: |
Andre knows Reisden's illusions
the way Reisden knows Andre's. Of course Reisden wants it to last,
because at that moment he is very happy; and of course that moment
can't last. 1914 is coming. Babies grow up. Wives have agendas.
But should it last? Goethe said in Faust
that when you say "to this one moment, You are so sweet,
oh! Say awhile," that's the moment at which you begin to lose
your soul.
|
| Q: |
Alexander and Perdita both know how much she has sacrificed
in the name of their marriage and family. In fact, this knowledge
threatens to destroy their marriage. Will Perdita ever reconcile herself
to what she has lost? |
| SS: |
No, nor should she! In A Citizen of the Country
she has an eight-month-old baby. Anyone who's been through
that stage knows one's personal agendas are in abeyance. She'll
get her life back. A different life.
There's another issue, which didn't make it into the book
though I desperately wanted it to. Perdita isn't "a citizen
of the country." She can't vote. She doesn't even have control
over which country she's a citizen of. When she married Reisden,
she became Austrian. When he becomes French, she becomes French.
The poor woman has been a citizen of three countries in two years,
and as a good American, she's getting a little annoyed.
When you write about the same characters, you've got to change
focus every three books or so, or you're overwhelmed with backstory.
For the moment, Reisden's story is finished. He's got what he wants,
he's happy. But Perdita has a great deal to fight for.
(Hi, you, reading this: what do you think is going to happen
to Perdita? Write me a note.)
|
| Q: |
The silences are palpable in many of the relationships
in this book. Is all that gets left unsaid difficult to capture in
print? |
| SS: |
That's the fun part of novels, what isn't said.
|
| Q: |
This is the final installment in a trilogy that includes
The Vanished Child and
The Knowledge of Water.
Did you plan from the outset to write a trilogy? |
| SS: |
Yes, but I thought it was going to be set in 1906,
1910, and 1914.
|
| Q: |
Have we heard the last from these characters? |
| SS: |
I don't think so.
|
| Q: |
You are a scholar and a novelist. How has your academic
training impacted your fiction? |
| SS: |
Academic training teaches you how to research. If
I had paid attention, though, I'd have realized even in graduate
school that I was more a storyteller than a scholar. Real scholars
create theories. I was always more interested in the storyteller,
her audience, and the story.
What I do have is curiosity and a really vivid imagination,
and a historical detail will set it off. (You should go junk-hunting
with me sometime; I'll look at anything.) Once, working in the files
of an eighteenth-century magazine, I came across a phrase, something
had happened "as quickly as a torch being knocked out against
a wall." I could see the whole thing, the torch, the irregular
brick of the wall, the splay marks of black soot where other torches
had been put out in the same place, the linkman holding the torch.
He needed a shave. Right then I should have known I was no academic.
It turns out that this migration from academics to writing
is a fairly frequent pattern for novelists. (You out there, reading
this, does it sound like you?)
It's also a pattern for biographers, and for detectives.
|
| Q: |
How much research went into this novel? What kind of
sources did you use? |
| SS: |
I read a lot about the period 1910-1913, about how
the First World War absolutely could not happen and if it did, it
would be finished by Christmas. I read about stage magic, films,
tunneling, psychology...but the ultimate resource was going to northern
France and walking around.
|
| Q: |
In a novel of this scope and complexity, how difficult
was it to weave all of the stories together? |
| SS: |
I'm terrible at plotting so I use an outline and
index cards to organize everything. When I start writing, the characters
take over and the book goes in a direction I never thought of, so
an outline reminds me of what I thought the book was about.
In case any of you have similar difficulties, there's a short
article, "How
to Plot When You Can't," available here.
|
| Q: |
Are you working on a new project? |
| SS: |
I'm working on a ghost story and a Reisden-Perdita
novel about survivors of the Titanic. Alex Chisholm and
I are also working on the play version of Chasing
Shakespeares.
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